Coffee Cup Community:
To begin, this is not a post meant to bash CoffeeCup or their new RLM layout tool, but, having given it a try I wish I had asked a few more questions before dropping the money on it.

First, when I saw the video on the CoffeeCup site I completely misunderstood the purpose of the product. I assumed it was a website design tool that addressed the issue of multiple device displays in a creative, dynamic way. I was not aware that it is primarily a grid layout application. Though I've seen a few posts in the forum that address workarounds, RLM is NOT a start-to-finish web authoring program as such. RLM is a barebones gridmaker aimed at those already familiar with CSS layout standards. That being said, it does simplify the markup process if you're the type of designer who already know where you want to place certain things (and have a really really good idea about the dimensions they'll take up in final form). It's also a good choice for those who work with text-rich, typographically-based sites that require pinpoint accuracy within columns & rows (think newspaper).

Second, in scouring the threads here I noticed a post stating that an upcoming tool, RSD (Responsive Site Designer), is forthcoming which will address the more visually-oriented designer looking to drag and drop items into a design, then manipulate them directly in-program. I am assuming RSD will keep some of the "Responsive" display adapting qualities of RLM in a more traditional WYSIWYG interface - somewhere between CoffeeCup HTML Editor and RLM.

My problem might be in the term "Layout" as used in the acronym RLM. As it pertains to website design, the term layout has been used in many ways over the years. It has encompassed everything from simple grid layout to comp or mock layout, to full-fledged/deployable final layout. While CoffeeCup's demonstration video showed no actual content I think my eye tricked my mind into believing it saw what was not there. Perhaps I was just hoping RLM was more of a "Design" tool than simply a grid editor. Visions of real-time comping on a laptop in my client's office came to mind. Trust me, this is not the kind of tool you'd want for on-the-fly demonstrations in front of clients unless you are extremely slick with markup or not afraid of heights. Even then, expect to hear "where are my pictures and maps?" several times by meeting's end.

If the RSD tool is forthcoming (and it addresses a more visual layout process) I would rather have applied the money I spent on RLM for the new product. Good as RLM is for its intended audience, I just don't have any use for it in my practical workflow.

Sorry Coffeecup. Maybe this one time we had a little miscommunication.

I made the same mistake when RLM was on sale right at first. I completely wasted my money on it as I will never have any use for it. Likewise, I completely misunderstood the product when there was almost no information out. My fault. I'm also very much interested in RSD. CoffeeCup makes great products.

Thanks for your comments Kevin. My first question though would be, did you download the trial version first? All of our software comes with a fully functional trial. This allows you to test all aspects of the program before having to purchase. I think if you would have done that, 90% of what you mentioned in this post would have been answered.

Responsive Layout Maker solves one of the biggest challenges in responsive design, having a flexible core which can adapt based on the viewer’s screen size. In a nutshell, Responsive Layout Maker creates a responsive prototype website (called a layout). You build the structure of your website in Responsive Layout Maker and then export to any code editor to add your final content. As the name of the program says "Layout Maker", it is not a site designer nor positioned as one. If you read all the descriptions and documentation, you will see us consistently refer to terms like "wireframe, prototype and layout".

We are however working on another program that is a site designer. It will work much in the same way Layout Maker does but will allow you to add all your content directly into the software as apposed to exporting and then using your favorite editor.

If you have not done so yet, we also have a bunch of articles on RLM to help you get more familiar with how the software works. Our Quick Start Guide is very helpful when getting started with Responsive Layout Maker. We recommend taking a look at it as it explains many different parts of RLM.

If your traffic statistics are leaning towards mobile traffic, we really suggest you dive into the responsive waters now. With Responsive Layout Maker along with the Quick Start Guide, some helpful videos and other tutorials will help you master this critical aspect web design. We recommend taking a look at it as it explains many different parts of Responsive Layout Maker. It will also allow you to hit the ground running when our Responsive Site Designer program is released (Responsive Site Designer will be able to import RLM layouts).

I have to strongly disagree with you there. We have had loads of information online long before the program was even released. The Quick Start Guide alone was completed and placed online in December of 2013. There are also countless articles, how-tos and even videos that shows how to use the program. How can you say "almost no information"!

Also don't forget there is a trial version that you can use so that you know exactly what you are getting before you buy. That is one of the major reasons we provide trials so that you can see what the software can do before committing to a purchase.

And by the sound of things, it would be good to have RLM either before or with RSD as the two will work together. You could create different layout types you think you might need, then while in your 'meeting' you could imprt various RLM layouts then add a little of the clients content and give a better idea of what the final product would look like. That sounds like it would be faster and better than either exporting the RLM layout then having to edit in HTML before the client could see anything, or starting from scratch each time in RSD. I didn't get RLM when it first came out because I don't code but I may have to re-think that when RSD comes out. I like the idea of having several RLM layouts handy when I start a project in RSD. Just my opinion but I wouldn't say you wasted your money. Especially if you got RLM while it was discounted!

Hey, Scott:
No, I didn't download the trial before purchasing. I rarely install trialware of any kind due to some negative experiences I've had with junkware add-ons and difficulties uninstalling (Adobe is the worst offender here, but there are others). So, yes, that would've been a good idea.

I guess it comes down to the semantic problem of the word "layout". While RLM renders a "layout" in certain circles, it might've been more accurate to call the product a "wireframe" or "prototype" generator. Again, it comes down to the vacillating language of what exactly constitutes a layout. Makes no sense to split hairs. My point is [that] the term "layout" (as I mentioned in my original post) has been used as a catch-all expression from the beginning. Ask most designers to define layout and you'll get a wide range of answers. Ask them to define "prototype" or "wireframe" and you're more likely to receive definitions as specific to design as RLM is to the whole process.

I'm not whining here. The money is less of an issue than the point I was trying to make - Things I wish I'd known before purchasing RLMP. I LOVE CoffeeCup products and have used them since you began putting them out. I've always admired your company's dedication to the customer as well as its innovative solutions for web designers such as myself. Heck, I even spent my 20th wedding anniversary at the convention you guys held in Dallas a few years back. But if you were to ask me whether or not I'll have a practical use for RLM I'd have to say, no.

RDP on the other hand? That sounds more like what I imagined RLM to be. So, I WILL download a trial version of RDP as soon as it's available. In fact, I would be glad to beta test it if/when it's available.

Don't take my post the wrong way. It was clearly my fault for not exhaustively checking out the product's features before purchasing it. I always get a little amped up when CoffeeCup comes out with something new. I've come to expect your products to be utterly useful in my toolset. This one, though, not so much.

Best Regards,


Kevin

Just a hint for the future, Kevin: You can be absolutely reassured that CC would never ever put any malware or adware or any other kind of 'foreign' stuff into their programme trials. Nor in their paid versions, of course. And my experience is, that uninstalling a CC programme is a completely trouble free procedure.

My Bad. I bought it BEFORE release though. I don't remember a Trial, or a lot of info available at that time. Maybe I just jumped too soon out of 'I wants' lol And I agree with Kevin's point. We should research more before we jump. We're not bashing CC here. If anything, we're pointing out OUR shortcomings.

Might I also comment on one thing said about the client usefulness. I use it most especially for that! It's the perfect tool for showing your clients how it's going to be setup and getting their approval of the layout first!

What I'm saying here is why finish the whole darn page for the client, content and all, for him/her to just say "oh I would rather have wanted that over on the left and the photo should not be there it should be on X page instead, etc. etc. So using this program for layout management prior to filling in all the content is the perfect tool for the client to view how it will be layed out.

I've done this with multiple sites now and truly there is no problem with the clients and content. They ask, you say yes that will get added later, but we need you to approve how it's all placed on the page as to where you want things to be. Your clients aren't stupid ya know

Just thought I'd throw that in there for good measure.

Very disappointing to read all the negative comments. Like so many of you, I recently purchased the Responsive Layout software because I thought it was a full-blown point-and-click or drag-and-drop web site builder. From what others have said in this forum it would appear that I, too, have thrown away money on something other than what I thought it was.

I was actually looking online for an instruction manual when I came across this forum. I really do think that Coffee Cup should continue producing downloadable PDF versions of manuals. It doesn't matter that changes will be inevitable, but as a part of customer service - and remember, customer service is a state of mind, NOT a department - Coffee Cup should be happy to make adjustments to the PDF or issue amendments in the same way that they post updates for programmes that we have already purchased.

Prior to this, I have never had anything negative to say about CC, but, quite honestly, on this rare occasion, I would like to know how to obtain a refund.

John Henley