That's what this wild journey's all about, isn't it?! And just when we think maybe we've "got it"...it all changes and we still have more to learn

So, to clarify my original question.

If you was only going to build sites that were to be maintained using VSD, and as long as you wasnt going to be passing on the HTML files to another designer to work on, then VSD is perfectly acceptable to build quality, professional looking sites? Yes?

Thanks to all who have taken the time to respond to this post. keep up the good work.

Thanks,

Oh, definitely. VSD was created to be very adaptable...and the newest version has even more options for creativity. But it does not allow the designer as much independence as straight coding does.

Learn HTML and you will have so many, many more options, sprinkle in some PHP and other programming and you can really spread your wings.

I like to get in there and see what the code can do. I like more control. So, I prefer the HTML editor, myself.

This is an interesting thread. I create applications and in order to sell them have had to set up sites. I have been told on many forums that I am wrong but if the viewer gets a good experiance there are no bad links and the site ranks reasonably good who cares what's under the hood. The reason I am here is that I just purchased Form Builder. I was setting up forms the hard way first the html then the php cgi script. Its a pain when you can throw a form together in an hour and it works. my point is I use BV's site builder which is quick but the code is all absolute but it gets the job done fast. I may try the VSD myself.

Who's kidding ourselves unless our sites are earning over $500/day who can afford to get some unistudent to pretty it up. I had several quotes on one site $1200 to $5500 . My point is if your site looks good and the thread starters site looks great keep going.

My first site http://inkmon.org (my first toy) I definatly have a journey ahead so expect me to soak up as much knowledge as possible here

Terry

LOL... quotes like that are what made me learn HTML about 8 years ago and take over my e-tail site, http://www.thetreasurebox.net. I began designing sites for others about 3 years ago and have never given a quote that high...though maybe I should...I think one can "under price" themselves in this field, too! Good luck to you, Terry, and feel free to "soak"

Hi,

Yeah Terry, this is what I was thinking.

One thing I always remember and tends to be true is the KISS statement 'keep it simple stupid'.

Now, it seems to me you cant get more simple than VSD and the other coffee cup applications that work with it. With it I think I can build any site in record time and I have only tinkered with it a few times, its that good in my opinion. Ok, there are 1 or 2 glitches such as simply inserting images to the background borders, not the page background, but maybe I just need to learn a bit more and tinker a bit more, maybe there is a way to just drop the whole website on to a background image or something similar.

I think clients would be happy with a site built with VSD as long as you use teh right images and it looks good. Maybe for pages that are really complicated you could build them in another application and link to it from VSD or if you cant complete those pages then pay someone to just complete the pages in the other application. this would surely be a quick and efficient way of building a site? The pages that need more versatile and complicated HTML could be built in HTML editor and linked to the VSD pages, or am I missing something?

I am not sure whether its just snobbery or elitism with HTML coding that is teh issue here? My appologys to any one who takes offence at that last remark, its not meant to be an attack or insult but more of an observation of the situation.
I guess the main things are, would the client be happy? does the site work? will the site be ranked well and not penalised somehow for being built using VSD?

Oh, I too am one of those guys that have spent hundreds. if not thousands getting sites built. One of my first major experiences was the site www.viralert.com, which is still ongoing. Kind of run out of money and momentum but will get back on it over the next few weeks. looking at it I could have built this using VSD in a week. (obviously not including having custom software built and the databases and script integration) Oh well.

Keep it coming guys, this is intresting.

Thanks,

As I said in another post I can create applications faster than I can set up sites to sell them. I do not have the luxury of going back often. The sites have to be self sufficient require no more input from me and be trouble free. That's why I sussed out Form Builder. added to BV the quicky site creater I use I can have a paying site up a week after I finish trialling my new application. I have given this out before but http://inkmon.org is my first and you always have a tender spot for the first whatever.

I may check out VSD and use it to create a site. I noticed that CC is offering a whole swag of programs for $129 I may consider it. I have tried the HTML editor and found it did not have the tag editor that Homesite has. Who can remember all the syntax for all tags.

Still if all CC programs are like Form Builder then I may convert

Terry

Hi Terry,

What software is BV please?

Thanks,

This is not an add as the BV web builder was made solely for those who have hosting with BlueVoda and it does not output normal html pages. It does output a preview. Remember I said I program well I convert the preview to the page I am working on, on the fly.It outputs everything in Absolute coordinates and it is a bugger to de-bug.

I would love them to change it but it is advertisement for their hosting which is more expensive than most.

From what I have seen of CC HTML editor what you get there is better code. I would not do the wrong thing by BV and hand my utility out. I use the program to suit the task at hand and if one does not exist I create it. Programming is a hobby.

I am only answering this as I was asked. I think I said I have created forms with sloppy CGI I am not to conversant with perl so when I trialed the Form Builder I purchased it after a weeks trial and saw its potential. It does not mean I will not tailor it to do what I want. I am already looking at the output file as far as making it more acceptable to Access which really can perform custom analysis.

I am one person who thinks Bill Gates achievements are bloody marvelous. When I think of a 10kg 2 megabyte disk I stored NC programs on. That was back in 1980. Hmm! that dates me I am 65 now. Respect the oldies they invented the computer the rest of us are just users.

Terry

Are we forgetting that VSD is HTML coding? It is limited in its scope and was designed for the beginner, not the professional web designer, to be an out-of-the-box program.

I am one who finds it sometimes offensive to be told how I "must" do something, and validation is something we strive for...but sometimes sacrifice for the end result. As long as it works, sometimes some things might be overlooked (use a validator on just about every major corporation's website - even Google - and you will find many errors). But there is nothing snobbish about doing something right or striving to do it right.

There are shortcuts to everything...and VSD allows for shortcuts. But there is a price to pay for shortcuts. I, personally, would not use VSD for a client site. If that makes me a snob, well, I guess it does. But I wouldn't ask my dental hygienist to pull my teeth, either. She may know which tooth is infected, and has seen the procedure many times...but that is not her area of knowledge. And I would be offended - as a web client - to discover I was charged a fee by a professional who designed a site for me using an inexpensive program I could have purchased myself. And the question was pertaining to using VSD for professional applications - forsaking learning HTML.

Without some basic HTML knowledge (which is not hard to obtain), trouble-shooting page issues with VSD would be difficult.

Elitist? Me? Funny.

Melanie