It's an issue that we are trying to get cleared out. (Scott )... While I've seen forms with it either way (pre-selected or not), I think the consensus here is to allow us (as designers) the option to chose which way we want it. I can see where some forms might be best to have a preselection made, but I can also see where one with preselections would confuse the daylights out of the form (if the user didn't realize they needed to change the selection).

As of right now, the new form builder makes a preselection by default, with no way to disable it.

How about putting a NA radio button.

Well hmm, if it's set to always require (in other words, there's no option for us to turn on or off for this element) then it will always have a checked option when submitted right? I see a lot of forms as I'm sure you have seen our examples off all over this thread and such, that don't have this radio button that is already checked on default. Truly it's needed. A good example (not specific but...) would be:

I have 4 choices of a specific product's flavor, color or whatever (insert your choices here). One of them has to be chosen, but....

If it's prechosen for the user, then they may not always realize that they need to change it, they may just bypass that selection as it's already chosen and there's nothing to tell them different (such as an error stating a selection is required).

This means that they will get whatever default is checked. How do you get around that? Not everyone uses a shopping cart for their order processing or information gathering, and sometimes these radio button choices are necessary to include. If it's already chosen, then there's no way to make it "required" for them to make a choice correct?

Just trying to get my mind around why this is such a problem. Check boxes can't fill this option as you can check multiple boxes as a few people have already stated in a few other threads and that leads to issues so radio buttons are the option they need, but if it's already a chosen choice for them, it's very easy to get "mis"information if that option was overlooked since it's already picked and cannot then be required.

Hopefully that makes sense.

I can see the usefulness of it as well Jo. I just find it strange that is violates the HTML specification.

Who the hell is w3c to tell you what is right and wrong. Obviously, you are not listening to the right people. Take a look at this form from my site and you will notice that not one of these radio buttons is checked. http://www.perfectonlynflpool.com/all_picks.htm. As a matter of fact, the program I am using to do this actually has the capabilties to reset all buttons should a mistake be made since some are required and others not. I have not included this button, but next year it will be on.

If someone can do this, then obviously they are not listening to w3c. This was not designed using CC software but is nonetheless HTML based. It is not a request, it is a requirement that they not be pre selected.

Guy

I, too see the need for radio buttons supposedly not initially filled in. I suspect you can accomplish this and still maintain W3C integrity just by creating a superfluous radio button as part of the group, setting it to "checked", and then in the HTML just set that labeled element's CSS visibility property to hidden.

Scott, couldn't that functionality be accomplished as part of the form GUI?

I never said it couldn't be done. I was only commenting on that the HTML specifications say it SHOULDN'T be done.

Although that might work as for the "visual" part of the element, I think that would still not allow for the "required" setting for the element since it's already pre selected. This would still cause issues if you need it to be filled in and they don't as they wouldn't get an error message or warning message telling them they missed a field... I think?

If the element does not need to be selected, it would then be set to not required and would not cause a warning message if not selected.

Guy

In my form, when a radio button is created, it is defaulted to none of the choices. in reporting, an email is created showing only that which was selected. A copy is sent to me, and a confirmation is sent to the person filling out the form. It show what his/her selection are. If an element is selected but hidden, the report would show that selection. This is not the result I would want. It is interesting to note that I can set the element to preselected. I have that option. But this program does not do that. I am sure that there many forms where the pre selection could cause a problem. I have given but one. As I said before, this is not a request, it is a requirement that it not be pre selected, otherwise the program is useless to me.

Guy